This Is Not a Clip Show

[00:00:00] ♪ Intro music ♪

[00:00:17 Andrew]: Hi, I'm your host, Andrew Sanders.

[00:00:19 Flo]: And I'm your co-host, Flo LaBrado.

[00:00:21 Andrew]: Welcome to Different at Work, where we talk navigating the modern workplace and cultivating professional relationships while being wired a little differently.

[00:00:30 Flo]: In our previous 10 episodes, we've explored the experience of our neurospicy colleagues at work and how different workplaces can become more welcoming. We've talked about strategies that can help people with — working with a neurodivergence to navigate work, and for leaders to lead effectively in a team that is neurodiverse.

But we haven't gotten very deep into some of the — the scaffolding, and by that we mean strategies that you can use to support yourself when you're neurodivergent and at work.

[00:01:09 Andrew]: I promise this isn't a throwaway episode like you see in those '80s sitcoms where they didn't write a new script, and so they just give you clips and a retrospective. We actually wanted to go into a little more detail about the strategies so that we can discuss their importance to the neurodivergent brain in more detail, and spend some more time on specific examples and how you might see these things play out in a workplace.

And we'll also talk a little bit about how they've helped me personally.

[00:01:38 Flo]: Yeah, and these items — these strategies that we'll share — they can help anyone. They're not specific only to neurospicy people. But we want to double down on these because they can be especially helpful. I'll start with one of my favorites, which is time boxing. We've talked about time boxing a few times before, and time boxing is essentially blocking out a section of time on your calendar to focus on one thing.

Or it may be to do work that is similar, so that you reduce the — the context switching that happens when moving from task to task to task. And I think of time boxing, and I love time boxing for me, I think of it as: when we switch from thing to thing to thing, every time we make a switch, we lose a little bit of energy.

It's sort of like if a tire has a nail in it, and it doesn't immediately go flat, but over time a little bit of air just is let out of the tire gradually. And then eventually one day you realize, oh, I think I have a flat. It's like that. When we constantly switch from task to task and we're switching context, and even more, switching domains, like from work to home to the grocery store or whatever, we lose a little bit of energy; we lose some focus.

Time boxing can mitigate that by grouping work together that is like, or just only focusing on one type of thing. And I'll use an example for me. On Thursdays, I used to block my calendar from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM, and that was time that was, for me, protected to do creative work, independent work: not respond to email, not respond to text messages or anything else.

And that time allowed me to focus on things like writing a document or creating a presentation or those kinds of creative things. And it wasn't a big jump to go from a document to a presentation, and from a presentation to a graphic, because it was all similar creative work. That's how time boxing works for me.

[00:03:51 Andrew]: That's a great example. And before we go any further, I just wanna point out that you're gonna hear us use terms like time boxing, and I don't want anybody to get caught up on trying to remember what something's called. Just remember the concept. Don't worry about, "Ah, time boxing, what was that thing they were gonna do? I need to tell my manager I need to time box." No, just remember the concepts and how they can apply to you practically. That's far more important than what we're calling them in our conversation today.

[00:04:18 Flo]: Yeah. Make your own.

[00:04:20 Andrew]: Make it make sense to you. Time boxing is great, and I think it's especially important. I like that you touched on the nail in the tire. That was a good visual. Because one of the things that is more difficult for people, and I'm speaking through my ADHD lens here, is transitioning from one task to another. It's those transitions that are really hard because, first of all, we gotta trust that we are refocusing to the right thing at the right time.

And it's hard to get the motivation or the momentum. We talk a lot about the difference between a neurotypical brain that can formulate its day and motivate itself based on importance. So it's easy to prioritize something based on importance, whereas with the ADHD brain, it's more wired neurochemically to focus on — basing everything on interests and novelty.

So time boxing allows you to — like Flo said, she gave the example of the doing all the creative things at one time — giving yourself a time limit. Like tasks limit the severity of the transition you have to do between task to task. Also, if you're working on something that's really interesting to you, an ADHD brain can go into that hyper-focus mode, which is where you get the tunnel vision and the world around you melts away, because you're working on something that really fires up your brain and you're really interested in it.

So time boxing also gives you the advantage of saying, "I'm only going to allocate two hours to this today." And so at the end of that time box, you know it's time to give that up wherever you're at in the process and focus on something else.

[00:06:03 Flo]: That's a really good point. I hadn't considered how time boxing could bookend time, instead of spending half a day on something when there are other things that also need attention, and maybe it only needed one hour today. So thanks for that.

[00:06:18 Andrew]: Then the other thing to say about time boxing is, one of the benefits is eliminating distractions, because you know what you're focusing on; you've already sort of pre-allocated that time. One of the tips that I found to be very helpful is making it easier to access the materials you'll need for whatever it is you'll be working on.

So in a workplace context, that could look like — say I'm using my Outlook calendar to manage my time allocation on things, and so I create a meeting for myself or an appointment for myself. When I say making things more readily available to avoid distractions: if that time is gonna involve a document in your OneDrive, for example, you could put that document, or a link to that document, directly in that meeting request that you're putting into Outlook.

That way you don't have to go through SharePoint to your OneDrive and find six other documents that you might wanna also work on, because that might distract you from actually doing the thing that you've allocated that time to do. So making the materials more readily available to eliminate distractions is also helpful when time boxing.

[00:07:23 Flo]: To me, that's sort of like if I'm going to — I don't know — if I'm going to do some yard work, getting all my tools together so that I don't have to keep running to the shed to get a tool every time.

[00:07:34 Andrew]: Yeah. Or like the night before a job interview, putting your clothes together, the outfit you're gonna wear, and laying them out on a chair or something. It's similar to that. Yeah. But it's really important for the ADHD brain because, as you're... I'll be honest, time boxing before I knew I had ADHD didn't work that great for me, because I didn't know how my brain works.

I didn't try to eliminate distractions or make sure my environment was clear to be focused on the things I was gonna work on. So I tried time boxing. Like, I would have the calendar invite on my calendar: focus time. So, focus time: I'm gonna focus on clearing out my email box, or I'm gonna focus on handling the paperwork that I need to do, or approve time sheets, or whatever the case was.

But I didn't set myself into do not disturb, or I didn't make my environment conducive to actually focusing. It's okay to tell people, "Hey, I'll be working on this thing." You know, "I'll be in do not disturb. Only call me if the building's on fire." Setting expectations ahead of time, so that way people don't feel like you're disappearing on them, or that you're just out to lunch or something—

[00:08:43 Flo]: Slacking.

[00:08:44 Andrew]: The whole goal is to eliminate distractions and maintaining focus. And also, time boxing is about maintaining momentum towards a goal.

The next thing is body doubling, and when we say body doubling, that is what it sounds like. It's having another body in your presence.

[00:09:03 Flo]: I'll be honest, when I first heard body doubling, it sounded really weird. It sounded like something creepy out of a movie where somebody takes over somebody else's body.

[00:09:14 Andrew]: In Hollywood, body doubling is you've got a stunt actor or something, right?

[00:09:17 Flo]: I was thinking creepier. I was thinking creepier, like somebody possesses somebody else's body, or—

[00:09:22 Andrew]: Like Body Snatchers, or—

[00:09:23 Flo]: Yes, body snatching. That's what I was thinking.

[00:09:25 Andrew]: Yeah, it's not — it's not creepy. Sometimes I wish I could hire a pinch hitter to come in and handle that rough meeting for me, but unfortunately, that's not how the workplace works. That would be interesting, seeing someone come in with an Andrew wig, though. But that's not what we're talking about in body doubling. What we're talking about is just having a human lined up just to be present or in communication. It doesn't even have to be in person, but think of it like an accountability partner.

So just by having a human, a connection to somebody else, where you could be spending your time working on different things — but if you're in the same room, and they're working on their thing and you're working on your thing, if that helps you, that's body doubling. That can help you each focus on the work that you need to get done.

It can be over Zoom. Another great example of body doubling is what Flo and I are doing right now. So Flo is my accountability partner in this Different at Work website and podcast. So I make commitments to Flo, and by having Flo's presence there, I feel compelled to deliver on those commitments.

I don't wanna let Flo down. If it was just me maintaining a website or a podcast, it would be very easy for me to say, "I'll do that later." And then later comes, and I might do that later. With the ADHD brain, there's either now or not now.

[00:10:40 Flo]: Yeah.

[00:10:41 Andrew]: That's how the brain works.

[00:10:42 Flo]: I think another really good example of body doubling is how you and I prepare for these episodes. So, for the listeners, the way that Andrew and I plan is that usually we'll record two episodes, and we'll do that every other week, and on the opposite weeks, we'll sit together and plan: for example, select the topic that we're going to talk about, do research, read into scientific journals, all that stuff, right?

And probably out of those two hours, we're probably silent one of those hours. But because we're there together researching, it serves as almost like accountability. And it can be really helpful, even if you're working on something completely independently. My friend Jane — she's also a leadership coach. We meet regularly to talk business and life and all kinds of things, and we've had days that — in which maybe she's working on writing content and I'm working on admin stuff like invoices and payments. But because we're together on a Zoom call, even if we're not working on the same thing, it serves as a sort of accountability to help each of us stay on our respective tasks.

[00:11:53 Andrew]: Yeah, absolutely. And I think other examples of body doubling that you might see in the workplace — this reminds me of project teams, right? Where everybody knows that they're working on something towards a sprint, or towards a gate in a project if you're going waterfall. But having the same people — it could be on a Teams meeting or in the same room, like a planning room or whatever — but just coworkers that are working on different things towards the same goal.

So you might be able to, you know, "Hey, how'd you do today?" "How many requirements did you knock out?" Whatever it is that you're working on, just having that shoulder, that person you can tap on the shoulder, and having... being there for that person to tap on your shoulder, just to hold you accountable. That's another way that you might see this in the workplace.

[00:12:36 Flo]: Love that.

[00:12:37 Andrew]: At home, another example of body doubling, just to... it home with this plank on the scaffold, is a gym partner. Having a gym partner, that's body doubling. That's someone that you do something with on a regular basis. A walking partner, someone you might be having a diet with, right?

Keeping up the encouragement. Maintaining your motivation to get something done. That's all body doubling. That sort of concept can be done in the workplace as well to help you stay on task.

The next one is keeping your work interesting, or getting the interesting work out of the way first. This one's really important because, like I said earlier, the ADHD brain is really motivated by interests and novelty. So things that are fun or exciting, or things that you might be curious to learn, those are the things you're gonna be more motivated to complete.

So if you can find a way to find the interest in the work that you have to get done — how does it align to your interests? — find that connection; that will help give your brain more motivation to complete work towards that goal.

[00:13:45 Flo]: So, may I play devil's advocate on this one?

[00:13:48 Andrew]: Absolutely.

[00:13:50 Flo]: First, so you know, I believe — not just believe, like I know — that meaningful work is an important part of keeping things interesting, engaging, and all of that in the workplace. But let's be real. We don't only get to work on the things that we're interested in. Like, that's just not realistic. Even for me, I love spending time with clients and building relationships with potential clients and collaborating. I'm not a fan of admin work. The mornings when I need to follow up on invoices, make sure my bookkeeping is in order, and — but that's a very important part of what I do.

I have to do that. If not, I don't have a business and income, right? So, like, how do we... To me, it's just unrealistic to expect work to be interesting all the time.

[00:14:36 Andrew]: Yeah, and if it was, you probably wouldn't get a paycheck for it, right? So work is work is work. To that, I would say that the concept of interest for ADHD people is a little bit different than how you'd for a neurotype. So for the neurotypical, you might hear people say or do — they'll get the difficult things out of the way first, so that the fun thing is last, as a reward, right?

For the ADHD brain, it should actually be the opposite. Do the interesting thing first to build the momentum to get the rest of the work done. So in your example of the admin work, if there's a component of that admin work that you find interesting — maybe sending out the bills is somewhat interesting because you get to write notes on the memo line or something — like, whatever part of that work you find interesting, start with that. Do that first.

[00:15:29 Flo]: Yeah, that makes sense. I wanna make sure that we're not setting the unrealistic idea that all of work can be interesting. And they say if you love your job, you never work a day in your life. I'm pretty sure that even Willy Wonka would need a break from chocolate.

[00:15:44 Andrew]: Absolutely.

[00:15:45 Flo]: Another strategy that I'd like to introduce is to start with the basics and take care of your nervous system.

And this is important because we can do our best work when we are well-resourced. Our nervous system is the way that our entire body and mind communicates, sending messages throughout our bodies, and it is so important. And when that system isn't well-resourced, it doesn't have the capacity that it needs, it's really hard to work at our best.

For someone who is neurodivergent or neurotypical, we all have a nervous system. And there are four really basic strategies here — sub-strategies — I'd like to offer to make sure that you build the capacity for your nervous system, and it's going to sound super simple, and yet it's really hard. Your nervous system needs four things: air, water, glucose, and rest.

Those things are so important, and this is part of the teaching done by the NeuroSomatic Intelligence group. I'll share with you that air is important — not just oxygen, not just making sure that you're super oxygenated, but a healthy balance between oxygen and carbon dioxide.

And with slow breathing, you can achieve that, and it shifts your nervous system out of a react— a reactive mode, whether it's fawn or flight or fight or freeze or whatever else, and gets you back to a place where you're feeling centered and grounded. So yeah, getting slow breath and getting a good balance of air, of oxygen and carbon dioxide, can make a huge difference.

And let's talk about water. Even a little bit of dehydration can dull your focus, and it flattens your mood. So staying hydrated is important for sharp thinking, and also to keep our emotions level. Glucose: our brains need glucose, and it's how we're able to stay steady, to think clearly instead of running on empty.

So glucose is really important. And of course, rest. And sleep — I think by now we all know this, but sleep is our brain's way of decluttering from the previous day, in a sense, and rebuilding capacity for whatever is next. And this is a lot. These can be pretty big life changes for some of us.

But my invitation is to pick one. Pick one of these four that you're the lowest in, whether it's air — if you find yourself breathing faster than you want to, or feeling out of breath or anxious — water — maybe you're not drinking your ninety-something ounces a day — or glucose, or rest, whatever it is. Pick the one of these that you're the lowest in and start to resource yourself there, and let the ball keep rolling.

[00:18:41 Andrew]: Yeah, I like the concept of picking one and then starting, because I have to admit that I am not the best at managing all four of these at any particular time. But also, I know how my... I'm learning how my brain works, and I know that if I were to say, "Oh, I need to build my nervous system. I need air, water, glucose, rest. Ready, let's go," all four, none of them are getting done.

It just becomes overwhelming. So yeah, just think of it in terms of incremental changes you can make to help start to build the healthier routines.

[00:19:18 Flo]: Like, for me, water is easy. I drink... If you could see me right now, I have one of these Owala bottles, and I drink probably close to 90 or more ounces of water every single day. For me, that's easy. I do really well on breathing and slowing down my breathing.

But then I have times, especially if I'm really busy, that I don't space out my meals appropriately. And so either I ha— a huge breakfast and then delay lunch until 3:00 in the afternoon, and then by that point I'm just — I'm irritable; I'm just running out of fuel. And I generally get really good sleep.

So for me, the one I have to work on, put the most thought into, is spacing out my meals in a way that it makes sense for the energy that I need. Because if I don't do that — I don't know, my brain just, I don't know, it drops from 60 to 20 miles per hour, and I just can't keep up.

[00:20:11 Andrew]: I think there's also a lot to be said about thinking positively, the positive psychology, and changing your environment, or at least controlling your environment as much as you can when you're completing a task or switching between tasks. And building nervous system capacity really ties into our next topic, which is the psychoeducation, and that's all about learning about how your brain works, and you're already partly doing that by listening to this podcast, right?

But learning about how the actual needs of your specific brain chemistry can impact the things that you need to do, maybe a little bit differently than the person sitting next to you, right?

[00:20:53 Flo]: What works for one person doesn't work identically for the next person.

[00:20:57 Andrew]: That is definitely true. But how that ties into the nervous system capacity is, sometimes you just need to take a five-minute break, get away from your work, go outside. In Seattle, we had sun breaks. Anytime the sun was out, we would walk away from our computer, go out, and just sit in the sun for five minutes.

It just gives you a little bit of a mental reset, and can go back a little bit recharged to the task that you were doing. But taking care of yourself, the physical part of your body — you gotta take care of it. For the psychoeducation piece, you have the ability to control how you think about something.

When you are able to control how are you are thinking about something, you can improve the outcomes. I know that I was a skeptic with the positive psychology piece, and we've talked a little bit about that before. It was like, "Ah, that's..." I think I called it hippie granola stuff on another episode.

But I promise you, I've been doing a lot more research on this, and... So I just wanna touch on the concept of neuroplasticity here for a second. Everybody's brain is able to make new connections, right? It's harder to do as you get older, so that new dog — old dog, new tricks thing is a little true, but it's not an absolute truth.

You can change your brain as you get older, and how you do that is changing how you think about things. So instead of focusing on the negative — "Oh, I have to do this report," or, "Ooh, I really sucked at that presentation; I'm gonna hate presentations like that going forward" — just reframe it in your mind: "Oh, I get to finish this report, and then I'm done with it."

I'm not saying you have to try to convince yourself that you love doing reports. But instead of focusing on the negative, try to think about the positive of it. Every situation has a silver lining somewhere. And every time you are able to look and focus at the positive instead of the negative, you're changing your brain.

It's a drop in the ocean, but after enough drops, you've got enough water. So every little bit helps.

Along with psychoeducation, also finding a support system is important, and educating that support system on the needs of your individual brain. Again, that could be in the form of professionals that you pay, like a mental health counselor or an ADHD coach or a career coach.

There's all sorts of coaches out there available for hire that can help provide an outside perspective to you. Also, your support system could be colleagues at work, loved ones, family members. It's so important to that system of people there that are always gonna be on your side. It's sort of like having your own board of directors.

Your people that are always gonna be rooting for you and able to weigh in honestly on issues, because they have a stake in your life. They love you.

[00:24:00 Flo]: I don't remember whether I've shared about this here, but there was a time we were working on a project launch and things were not going well. And I just felt so responsible for how things were going, and I was working a lot of hours, and I hadn't seen — I hadn't gotten fresh air in a while.

And one of my friends just basically snatched me out of the room, and we went outside and went for a walk and got some sunshine. I think we might have even taken a drive to get coffee. And that, to me, is an example of my support system realizing that I was short-circuiting and that I needed support in that moment.

And, you know, whatever it was, 20, 30 minutes, I don't know, I returned back to the room re-energized, refocused, and that's what I needed in that moment. And it does help to share with the people that are close to you what your quirks are, what your needs are, so that if you're in a situation where you're having a hard time recognizing those in yourself, someone who's close to you and who loves you can call it out and help you in that moment, and help you get back on track.

One of my favorite things is — we have those moments when we've used a lot of energy, and then we need to recharge, and that's great. I like to pre-charge, and here's what I mean by pre-charge. What I mean is anticipating when I'm going to be in a situation where I'll need to either use a lot of energy or something else, and then pre-charging in advance.

It's kind of like before you leave your house, you make sure your phone is charged, so that you have enough battery life on your phone for running errands or whatever it is that you're gonna do. I think of it that way. It may be that I'm going to have a week of, you know, multiple networking and relationship-building events.

In anticipation of that, I might spend more quiet time alone. I'm an introvert, so I pre-charge and recharge usually alone, and I'll plan for that. Another example might be someone who is maybe extroverted and has a lot of work ahead of them that is independent work. They might choose to spend more time with their friends and in social situations to pre-charge before going into that work.

Maybe it's focus. I've had moments when I need to focus, I need to double down, and so I will set the stage so that I am able to focus. Whatever it is, I highly recommend pre-charging: knowing what you need, and making sure that you're resourcing yourself to meet the need at hand. Another metaphor might be an athlete.

I used to watch MMA years ago. I was obsessed with it. Not so much anymore. And I used to... Just thinking about how a competitor, a fighter, goes to a camp, and for weeks, they're training, training, training really hard. And then for maybe a couple of days, or maybe more, before the fight, they will train with less intensity, because they need to conserve the energy and heal th— their body to be prepared for the match.

Think of pre-charging as that: knowing what you need, and stock up on what you need so that you can be ready for what it is that you want to do.

[00:27:24 Andrew]: I love that. I love that example because, if you think about it, that concept kind of folds in all the other concepts we've talked about. In the two examples that you just provided, I heard a little bit about support system, having that group of friends if you're the driver or extroverted person; knowing how your brain works, that's the psychoeducation; using your interests as a tool touches on that too. So you know what's interesting to you, or that you need to pre-charge. That touches on all of them that we've talked about so far, so I really love that.

[00:27:57 Flo]: And it takes self-awareness. It takes knowing what you need, what helps you perform at your best, and what is counterproductive for you.

[00:28:09 Andrew]: Yeah. And controlling your environment. I think I touched on that a little bit too. So pre-charging allows you to control the environment that you're in to get ready for something. So, you know, for example, you need a quiet place if you're gonna have to deal with people.

[00:28:24 Flo]: That's for sure me. I'll go to an example. I'm an introvert. On the scale from extroversion to introversion, I'm somewhere close to the middle, but on the introversion side. And I know people like the term ambivert. I am a straight introvert. I literally take vacations alone sometimes.

I take vacations with my husband, but I also take vacations alone to recharge, to pre-charge. Anyway, so a few weeks ago, I went to a networking event that would've been particularly challenging for me. I was walking into a place where I'd never been, into a room with people I'd never met, except one person — I met him on Zoom — and I didn't know anyone else.

So for me, that felt like a lot. So I drove — it was a 45-minute drive. I drove out. I... First I visited my mom, 'cause it was near her area, which for me, that's already pre-charging the soul. And when I drove to the event, I sat in my car for a few minutes in the quiet — no music, no phone, no anything — and just got really quiet, and v— and energized.

And then stepped out of my car, and I had a great time. I didn't go in dreading it. I didn't go in thinking, "Oh my gosh, I gotta go talk to people I don't know." I went in open-hearted, and I know that taking those moments to pre-charge allowed me to get to have such a wonderful experience. And the amazing thing was that there I met another — an executive coach.

We have so much music in common. I met a piano player. I met a former professor, and we just — we've developed a relationship. And if I had gone in to this event drained, or without pre-charging, I don't think I would've been as open-hearted to forming and building new relationships.

[00:30:14 Andrew]: With pre-charging — 'cause I think this is important one — I'd like to think about how this can be done in the workplace. So what are some small ways, or big ways even, that we can pre-charge in the modern workplace? Thinking back, I think one of the ways that I would do this before would — maybe like five, 10 minutes before a meeting that I knew was high stakes or whatever — clearing my calendar just so I could take a walk on the campus or go to get coffee, or something that didn't require any decisions or commitments or anything.

That's also a form of pre-charging. It's changing my environment and just kind of, like, being able to clear my mind of any concerns. Are there any other examples you can think of that one could do in the workplace to pre-charge?

[00:31:00 Flo]: Yeah, I think there's one more for pre-charge that I think is really important, and that is — it is more around confidence. We have those moments in which we are stepping into a high-stakes situation: maybe doing something new in front of a newer audience, making a big request, whatever it is. Part of pre-charging can be connecting with a mentor, someone who can — not just help you practice your presentation or any of that, but someone who can reflect to you who you are.

I think of it as borrowing confidence, and that could be a way of pre-charging: of having someone pour into you in a moment when you need that extra boost. And I don't mean toxic positivity and telling, "Everything's gonna be great," 'cause there's no guarantee. You know? Some other variable outside of your control could be a factor.

But what you can control is you, and leaning into someone who can pour into you and help you prepare your mindset in that moment can be another way of pre-charging and leaning into your support system.

I know that we're both really glad that we dedicated an episode to just dive in a little more closely, a little bit more deeply, into these strategies, the scaffolding.

And the intent here isn't that, oh, organizations are off the hook because the neurodivergent worker is responsible solely for everything. But we hope that these strategies can support you in taking care of yourself in the workplace. As we wrap up this episode of Different at Work, we've talked about time boxing, body doubling, leaning into the interesting work first to build that motivation, resourcing your nervous system to build capacity, your support system and psychoeducation, and my favorite, pre-charging.

We hope that these are helpful to you. Thank you so much for joining us, and we hope that you keep being you, Different at Work.